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TaniaOK

Dilute, Clearwing Or Greywing?

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Hello everybody, please, help me with the defining of the variety :)

 

This is my bird, 2yo, pedigree is unknown, was not bred yet.

 

I think, he is Dilute Violet Mauve :)

 

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Here are his pics when he was 1 month old:

 

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After his first moult he became brighter.

 

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His tail feather (upper one):

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I understand that a Dilute should not have such bright cheek patches, but how can he be a Clearwing, with such a diluted body?? Or a Greywing, with such faint markings?

 

What do you think?

Generally, may a Dilute have bright enough cheek patches?

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Looks like a Greywing to me. There is a huge variation in the depth of greywing wing colour and the original greywing mutation was a 1/2 body colour with grey wing markings.

 

The key difference for me between greywing and clearwing is the CLARITY of the wing markings (although a good clearwing should not really have any most do). The greywing markings seem way more stark, more precise whereas clearwing markings when they have them seem more fuzzy and indistinct.

 

But the body colour is a giveaway. Clearwing would be bright vibrant colour. Dilute SHOULD be more diluted than this.

 

My pitch..... Greywing.

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nubbly5, thank you very much for the answer! :)

 

But what do you think of his tail? It's not grey. It's of pale violet colour and the quill is not grey too.

 

Also, his wing markings look very clear for me to be ones of a Greywing. Greywings I've seen have much darker markings.

 

And Dulite Suffused may have 50% of intensity of body colour. I think, he doesn't have even 40%.

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Tania these varieties have features that are often almost interchangable depending on how they have been bred. To me he looks very much like the original greywings - 1/2 body colour, soft but distinct grey wong markings and his tail QUILL looks grey in the top feather. The bottom feather is more neutral quill colour which may indicate dilute or maybe because his grey wing markings are quite light.

 

Suffusion level is very subjective too and being violet (I don't agree with mauve but think he is cobalt & violet) you can often get very washed out violets. In my clearwings I have a line of birds that breed this pale washy violet. I think it's been documented somewhere else too from memory. This combined with the dilution of the greywing could produce his body colour. But so could the dilute mutation. He is strongly coloured enough to be a greywing and dilute enough to be a dilute.

 

He might well be a heavily suffused dilute only to me his wing markings are more distinct than most dilutes I've seenand his body colour more heavy.

 

The trouble with these varieties is that their characterstics are partly governed by modifiers which affect wing markings and suffusion level and these can be interchanged between the 3 varieties on this allele sometimes making a 100% distinction difficult.

 

You can get dilutes that have NO wing markings if they have been bred through clearwings due to the carryover of the clearwing wing modifiers to the dilute.

 

Still my best guess (and other might guess the other way) based on what I've seen from my birds and others over the years, would be greywing.

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nubbly5, thank you very much for your detailed explanations! d_daisy.gif

 

Here are more pics of his tail (I still doesn’t see much grey on its quill, but I don’t have Greywings and don’t know how their tails look in reality) I’m sorry, the upper part is a bit dirty:

 

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At first, I thought myself that he is a Greywing split to Dilute. But seeing other Greywings, Dilutes and Clearwings I started to tend thinking that he is a Dilute. Australian birds are famous by their clear wings (and yours are just marvelous!!!) and European ones mostly have dirty wings. In Russia the hobby has been developing only now, and most of our birds have European origin. That’s why I think that for non Australian bird his wings are clear enough for a Dilute and not marked enough for a Greywing. I understand that I should pair him to a Dilute hen to check.

 

But I would like to ask your opinion about his cheek patches. They are of rather dark dull violet colour. May a Dilute generally have such ones?

If he is a Dilute Vilolet Mauve, might 2 dark factors and a violet factor make such a colour?

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Matt Welchman, thank you :)

 

 

May anybody explain about cheek patches (may a Dilute have dark/bright ones)? :)

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Bird Junky, thank you, I know this site, it is not helpful with my question.

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Matt Welchman, thank you :)

 

 

May anybody explain about cheek patches (may a Dilute have dark/bright ones)? :)

 

As far as I know, the answer to this question is no.

 

While I was reading your first post, before I read Nubbly's answer, I was forming an opinion, and Nubbly's answer was the same as I was going to tell you. :) (That's because I have asked similar questions before, and between Nubbly and RIPBudgies, that's how I have learned it. :) )

 

I also pair my questionable ones with dilutes, to try to figure them out. But I think that what happens is that I then add more of the modifying genes, and muddy the results even further. That's IF I can even be sure that the dilute I use is truly a dilute!

 

The Budgie Place is good for beginning to learn the simple basics of budgie genetics, but there is a whole lot more to it than the scope of that site. And they don't have enough photos to be very comprehensive. Many mutations vary a lot from the one or two examples they provide. But I do like to refer people there when they are starting from scratch.

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As far as I know, the answer to this question is no.

Finnie, thank you very much for the answer, even if it ruins my suppositions :))))

 

If he is a Clearwing, I'm just happy, because it's my preffered mutation (along with Spangles), and it's a very rare one here, in Russia. I'm delighted of Nubbly's Clearwings, but it's next to impossible to find any similar one here.

 

The Budgie Place is good for beginning to learn the simple basics of budgie genetics,

Yes, I fully agree, I started with it myself, several years ago :)))

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In answer to your cheek patch question. Mauve makes for quite dark (dull even) cheek patches. Violet modifier too can affect cheek patch colour making it deeper in colour.

 

Really I still do think this guy is a greywing based on 2 different things. Wing markings (not so much the colour - I've had clearwings with darker wing markings than this) but the clarity. The thing that I've noticed over the years is that greywings (not dirty clearwings) have quite stark markings whereas clearwings have fuzzy markings. The second thing is his body colour. It's too dark for dilute. okay it could be clearwing OR greywing based on colour but all things considered I'd still have to say greywing. There is always the opportunity to be wrong though!

 

As Finnie says test mating can help but these 3 varieites are so muddied these days that even that can be difficult.

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nubbly5, thank you very much for the answer! d_daisy.gif

 

And what do you think about this bird?

 

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I think that she is a Clearwing (well, with dirty wings)) and want to pair her to the bird in question (well, I understand that it's better to pair him to a Dilute, but I can not resist trying to get Clearwings))

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Could be either! Still well worth the pairing and it's kind of fun to see the outcome of a not 100% certain pairing!

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