Finnie 0 Posted December 1, 2011 Member ID: 5,135 Group: Global Moderators Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,545 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 14,055 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 18, 2020 Birthday: 06/08/1965 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Someone was asking me about this (new/rare?) mutation, and doing a google search, I couldn't come up with anything concrete about it. I found where it was discussed on a couple of forums, including ours, but that mostly goes along the lines of "What is it?" "I don't know, never heard of it." I did find one place where Neville said it was a variation of Clearflight pied, but other sources thought it was a variation of recessive pied. The person who asked me gave me this link, and I said I would ask around on here, to see if any of our experienced show breeders know about it. http://www.budgeriga...k/frosted-pied/ I assume it is something completely different to a bird that shows "frosting" in its body color? Link to comment
Finnie 0 Posted December 1, 2011 Member ID: 5,135 Group: Global Moderators Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,545 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 14,055 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 18, 2020 Birthday: 06/08/1965 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 I did some more searching, and I came up with this, which wasn't there the first time I searched. http://pets.dir.grou...e/message/14907 I agree with what Ken Yorke said about people making up new names for existing mutations. It's very frustrating when everyone uses different terms, and you're supposed to keep in your head which ones mean the same thing as each other, and which terms mean something different. Link to comment
GenericBlue 0 Posted December 1, 2011 Member ID: 4,737 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,156 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 28,240 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 08/09/1973 Share Posted December 1, 2011 okay i got a book on them ill go find it okay they are also named finnish pieds they are recesive and a n intermediate form or a danish and a blackeyed clear Link to comment
Finnie 0 Posted December 1, 2011 Member ID: 5,135 Group: Global Moderators Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,545 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 14,055 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 18, 2020 Birthday: 06/08/1965 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 okay they are also named finnish pieds they are recesive and a n intermediate form or a danish and a blackeyed clear Was that what the book said? What is the name of the book/author? Just great! Now we get to add "Finnish" to the list. Did the book say how to produce this? Link to comment
GenericBlue 0 Posted December 1, 2011 Member ID: 4,737 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,156 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 28,240 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 08/09/1973 Share Posted December 1, 2011 book by cessa feyerabend and dr.matthew m.vriends a frosted pied would be a finnish pied hun they refer to danish as harliquines its a olddy but goody this book they are.... snow white with clear wings lower brest and rump is deep blue Link to comment
Neville 0 Posted December 1, 2011 Member ID: 4,610 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 714 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 3,640 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 23/08/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: August 15, 2015 Birthday: 09/12/1940 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) It is my understanding that clearflight pied, dutch pied, continental clearflight & frosted pied are all the same mutation. There can be a lot of variation in the appearance of clearflight pieds which could account for different names The real problem is that there are too many "experts" with too many different ideas Edited December 1, 2011 by Neville Link to comment
GenericBlue 0 Posted December 1, 2011 Member ID: 4,737 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,156 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 28,240 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 08/09/1973 Share Posted December 1, 2011 okay they are also named finnish pieds they are recesive and a n intermediate form or a danish and a blackeyed clear Was that what the book said? What is the name of the book/author? Just great! Now we get to add "Finnish" to the list. Did the book say how to produce this? yes as above danish x black eyed clear Link to comment
nubbly5 0 Posted December 2, 2011 Member ID: 5,023 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,608 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 8,635 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 28/01/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2011 With Neville - other name for a dutch pied. Has quite distinctive frosting on wings in normal variety. Check with RIP she has bred these and has one now I think. Link to comment
TAZ DEVIL 0 Posted December 2, 2011 Member ID: 6,658 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 520 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 30/03/11 Status: Offline Last Seen: February 7, 2012 Birthday: 01/03/1953 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Hi all i beleive that John Carter in Sydney has a few seen one a few years ago at his abode Cheers TAZ D Link to comment
fordmob 0 Posted December 2, 2011 Member ID: 6,842 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 231 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 1,355 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 25/07/11 Status: Offline Last Seen: June 26, 2013 Birthday: 01/05/1972 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Sounds deliciious http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=frosted+pie&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1C1CHKB_enAU413AU413&biw=1280&bih=705&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=hzieg6zJevvOiM:&imgrefurl=http://frostedcake.blogspot.com/2009/11/thanksgiving-pie-cake-order-today.html&docid=C-g6wfgXpp1uoM&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XMVO6g31rAc/SwRMf8uIh9I/AAAAAAAAAsg/8JMYlAdz_5Y/s1600/tfcs_piecake1.jpg&w=600&h=400&ei=65rYTsKYPITkmAWtsoHaCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=576&vpy=390&dur=1552&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=145&ty=63&sig=108767735039951451929&page=2&tbnh=152&tbnw=203&start=16&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:16 Edited December 2, 2011 by fordmob Link to comment
GenericBlue 0 Posted December 2, 2011 Member ID: 4,737 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,156 Content Per Day: 0.92 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 28,240 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: October 27, 2021 Birthday: 08/09/1973 Share Posted December 2, 2011 lol yum dan cooking me one are you ??? well i just got bit smart after seeing dans pie and it hit me a black eye is produced by receive pied to a dutch/clearflight/continental pied so well it has to be a dutch-ed pied that they are referring to as frosted here i found this they guys a bit of track as he refers to clear flight and dutch pieds as seperate but they are one the same i call them continental clearflighted dutch pieds to use all names as so i dont forget they are the same here read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearflight_Pied_budgerigar_mutation Link to comment
Finnie 0 Posted December 2, 2011 Member ID: 5,135 Group: Global Moderators Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,545 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 14,055 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 18, 2020 Birthday: 06/08/1965 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) It is my understanding that clearflight pied, dutch pied, continental clearflight & frosted pied are all the same mutation. There can be a lot of variation in the appearance of clearflight pieds which could account for different names The real problem is that there are too many "experts" with too many different ideas With Neville - other name for a dutch pied. Has quite distinctive frosting on wings in normal variety. Check with RIP she has bred these and has one now I think. Thank you Nubbly and Neville. I think I've got it now. Genetically it's the same mutation on the same allele as (Continental)Clearflight/Dutch pied. But because it looks distinctive, then it gets a distinctive name. Does that mean it has its own class at a show? I guess there is this lady in the U.S. who had a judge put hers into a different class. Sounds deliciious http://www.google.co...1t:429,r:2,s:16 :lol: It took me a moment to get this! I guess it's cakes that I usually think of as frosted. i call them continental clearflighted dutch pieds to use all names as so i dont forget they are the same I like that idea, GB! At least until I can memorize them all properly. Usually I get the Dutch and the Danish confused, and I can't figure out which one people are talking about. I think if I start stringing the Danish/Harlequin/recessive pied all together too, then I might finally be able to remember those, too. (I think learning that Australian Banded means Dominant Pied was easier for me, because it has the word Banded in it, which is a distinquishing feature of the dommies.) here read http://en.wikipedia....erigar_mutation Thank you so much for this link! Reading that has really helped me to understand this, and clarify it in my mind. I liked it so much, that I've even added it to the links page of my website. okay, now to go slightly off on a tangent. GB, what do you mean by the following? they are.... snow white with clear wings lower brest and rump is deep blue I have a hen I bought about a year ago that this completely describes. She is white, has black eyes, no iris rings, no markings whatsoever, but she has a small amount of blue way down on her breast, and a bright blue rump. At first I had hoped that she was a dark eyed clear, but I was told that those don't get any color. So I've been figuring that she must just be a (very) poorly marked recessive pied. (Orange beak and pink feet) Is it possible that she is just a continental/clearflight/dutch pied? Edited December 2, 2011 by Finnie Link to comment
Finnie 0 Posted December 6, 2011 Member ID: 5,135 Group: Global Moderators Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,545 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 14,055 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 18, 2020 Birthday: 06/08/1965 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Okay, here is my hen. I guess she has lost a lot of the blue since I bought her back in January. But you can kind of see it low on her belly and on her back, if you really look. I still think she's a Dark Eyed Clear, not a Frosted Pied. Opinions, anyone? Link to comment
Neville 0 Posted December 6, 2011 Member ID: 4,610 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 714 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 3,640 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 23/08/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: August 15, 2015 Birthday: 09/12/1940 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Another possibility is that she is a double factor spangle that is masking recessive pied The only way to be sure of her mutation is to breed from her and look at the chicks Link to comment
splat 0 Posted December 6, 2011 Member ID: 3,340 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 202 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,891 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 27,770 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 17/04/07 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 19, 2014 Birthday: 13/05/1958 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Sounds deliciious http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=frosted+pie&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1C1CHKB_enAU413AU413&biw=1280&bih=705&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=hzieg6zJevvOiM:&imgrefurl=http://frostedcake.blogspot.com/2009/11/thanksgiving-pie-cake-order-today.html&docid=C-g6wfgXpp1uoM&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XMVO6g31rAc/SwRMf8uIh9I/AAAAAAAAAsg/8JMYlAdz_5Y/s1600/tfcs_piecake1.jpg&w=600&h=400&ei=65rYTsKYPITkmAWtsoHaCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=576&vpy=390&dur=1552&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=145&ty=63&sig=108767735039951451929&page=2&tbnh=152&tbnw=203&start=16&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:16 Link to comment
Finnie 0 Posted December 7, 2011 Member ID: 5,135 Group: Global Moderators Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,545 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 14,055 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 18, 2020 Birthday: 06/08/1965 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Another possibility is that she is a double factor spangle that is masking recessive pied The only way to be sure of her mutation is to breed from her and look at the chicks Thank you, Neville. I forgot to mention, and I know it's not conclusive evidence, but that store I got her from has never ever had any spangles. It seems unlikely (but not impossible) for them to get in a DF but never a SF. BUT, when I got her, there were many recessive pieds and what looked like dom pieds, but could also have been clearflight pieds running around in there. And they had other whites and yellows (and YFs), some with red eyes and some with black. I knew you'd say breeding would be the way to tell. My wish list of pairs waiting for nest boxes is getting too long! But if I get to her, which would be better, a normal or a normal/rec.pied? Link to comment
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