Jump to content
**KAZ**

Rabbit And Guinea Pig Pellets For Budgies ?

Recommended Posts

Gosh I am loving this thread :D;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyway, I dropped in to the retailer/manufacturer where I purchased my pellets today to find out about the molasses content. It seems there is still a very small component of molasses in the pellets. I asked why and he said it was for the nutrient value molasses provides. The label had changed to meet legal requirements for disclosure of some other ingredients. He said that higher amounts of molasses would not be good for birds for the reasons I outlined earlier but that the small amount in the Small Bird pellets was fine.

 

Dont you find it interesting thet there is still molasses in it but it no longer is on the list of ingredients ? It makes you wonder what else can be in these kinds of things but not appear on the packet.

 

I didnt get to see my stock feed supplier today ...I will be going tomorrow morning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ingredients of the rabbit pellets the birds like so much

 

Crude protein 18%

Crude fibre 22%

salt 1%

Calcium .06%

Phosphorous .2%

 

 

 

Actual ingredients:-

 

Barley

Oats

Triticale

cereal byproducts

lucerne

Daryl....he was concerned with the fact that they contained lucerne which he believes is too high in fibre for budgies and likely to scour them

http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/general/tonkbfl.html

RAY PODGER....exhibition budgergar breeder we do give our birds fresh Lucerne daily; they love it and will not eat any other greens if they can get Lucerne.

cereal straw

powdered limestone ( calcium)

dicalcium phosphate ( mainly used as a dietary supplement in prepared breakfast cereals, dog treats, enriched flour, and noodle products. )

salt

methionine http://www.vitaminstuff.com/methionine.html

choline http://www.enc-online.org/factsheet/Choline.pdf

vitamins

trace minerals

 

NO MOLASSES

 

http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/budgie/feeding.html

 

bird pellet ingredients http://www.artemisaviary.com/pellet.html

 

PS I didrnt read the side of a packet.....I went straight to the detailed ingredient source material on file from the manufacturer.

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ingredients of the rabbit pellets the birds like so much

 

Crude protein 18%

Crude fibre 22%

salt 1%

Calcium .06%

Phosphorous .2%

 

Actual ingredients:-

 

Barley

Oats

Triticale

cereal byproducts

lucerne

Daryl....he was concerned with the fact that they contained lucerne which he believes is too high in fibre for budgies and likely to scour them

http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/general/tonkbfl.html

RAY PODGER....exhibition budgergar breeder we do give our birds fresh Lucerne daily; they love it and will not eat any other greens if they can get Lucerne.

cereal straw

powdered limestone ( calcium)

dicalcium phosphate ( mainly used as a dietary supplement in prepared breakfast cereals, dog treats, enriched flour, and noodle products. )

salt

methionine http://www.vitaminstuff.com/methionine.html

choline http://www.enc-online.org/factsheet/Choline.pdf

vitamins

trace minerals

 

NO MOLASSES

http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/budgie/feeding.html

okay, I'm in! Where do you buy them from Kaz? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
okay, I'm in! Where do you buy them from Kaz? :)
Same place we get our Muscle XL from B)$2.70 for 2 kgs
I recalled an incident that happened with the SEQ National team in Tassie this year. Upon arrival the team was placed in holding cages, the bottoms of which were lined with lucerne. The birds began to eat some of the lucerne and in a short time a number of birds had become ill with heavy diarrohea and had to be scratched from the show. One of Henry George's birds was still sick some weeks after returning from this show.
Is there evidence to support this statement such as a vet diagnosis or is it heresay ? Reason I ask is that the airtravel alone involved in getting birds to the nationals, ( in some cases two plane trips for some of these birds going to Tassie :D ) added to the fact all birds are in together with other team birds they have never lived with ( NO quarantine as is the normal practice ) and the known fact that a lot of birds that go to the Nationals get sick either there or on their return.STRESS, TRAVEL, CONFINEMENT, OTHER BIRDS POSSIBLY CARRIERS OF ILLNESS, NO QUARANTINE, CHANGE OF FOOD.....Tell me these things arent a part of a bird getting sick going to the Nationals. Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ingredients of the rabbit pellets the birds like so muchCrude protein 18%Crude fibre 22%salt 1%Calcium .06%Phosphorous .2%Actual ingredients:-BarleyOatsTriticalecereal byproductslucerne
Daryl....he was concerned with the fact that they contained lucerne which he believes is too high in fibre for budgies and likely to scour them
http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/general/tonkbfl.html
RAY PODGER....exhibition budgergar breeder we do give our birds fresh Lucerne daily; they love it and will not eat any other greens if they can get Lucerne.
cereal strawpowdered limestone ( calcium)dicalcium phosphate ( mainly used as a dietary supplement in prepared breakfast cereals, dog treats, enriched flour, and noodle products. )saltmethionine http://www.vitaminstuff.com/methionine.htmlcholine http://www.enc-online.org/factsheet/Choline.pdfvitaminstrace mineralsNO MOLASSES http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/budgie/feeding.htmlbird pellet ingredients http://www.artemisaviary.com/pellet.htmlPS I didrnt read the side of a packet.....I went straight to the detailed ingredient source material on file from the manufacturer.

 

Thanks for getting the contents Kaz and the posted links. The diet fed by Ray Podger is quite a different balance again. The link with all the pellet ingredients listed by manufacturer is very interesting. Too bad they didn't include our Australian ones too.

 

I have made a comparison of the Small Bird pellets I use, the American pellets link above and the Guinea Pig pellets ingredients you've listed above to highlight some differences which can be derived from the info we have at hand. The Guinea Pig pellets are listed first.

 

1. Protein 18% - a little bit higher than the Small Bird pellets but still within the range of the American pellets linked.

 

2. Fibre 22%. This is about 5 times higher than the Small Bird pellets. The link you posted to pellets contents has a crude fibre % range of 2-8% with most around 4-5%. Probably a bit too high.

 

3. Salt 1% - This is almost 7 times higher than the Small Bird Pellets and 5 times higher than the highest listed pellet in the link.

 

4. Calcium 0.06% - this is 10 times less than the calcium content of the Small Bird pellets (at 0.6%). The linked pellets contain a range of 0.3% to 1.2%. The magnitude of this range can be explained by the fact that the pellet list is for a variety of birds of different sizes. And manufacturers differing opinions :)

 

5. Phosphorus 0.2% - this is about 3 times less than the average content of the linked pellets. I don't know the phosphorus content of the Small Bird pellets.

 

So, there appears to be a fair difference in the balance of the nutrients listed above. However, the bird pellet mixes are primarily developed as a complete feed. Since none of us is using any type of pellet as a complete feed perhaps small quantities of the Guinea Pig pellets may be okay. As you know I'd prefer to use the one developed for birds.

 

The NO MOLASSES part made me laugh. As I said earlier, the guinea pigs we used to have would turn their nose up at any pellets NOT containing lots of molasses, yet the birds love it :D Go figure.

 

I recalled an incident that happened with the SEQ National team in Tassie this year. Upon arrival the team was placed in holding cages, the bottoms of which were lined with lucerne. The birds began to eat some of the lucerne and in a short time a number of birds had become ill with heavy diarrohea and had to be scratched from the show. One of Henry George's birds was still sick some weeks after returning from this show.
Is there evidence to support this statement such as a vet diagnosis or is it heresay ? Reason I ask is that the airtravel alone involved in getting birds to the nationals, ( in some cases two plane trips for some of these birds going to Tassie B) ) added to the fact all birds are in together with other team birds they have never lived with ( NO quarantine as is the normal practice ) and the known fact that a lot of birds that go to the Nationals get sick either there or on their return.STRESS, TRAVEL, CONFINEMENT, OTHER BIRDS POSSIBLY CARRIERS OF ILLNESS, NO QUARANTINE, CHANGE OF FOOD.....Tell me these things arent a part of a bird getting sick going to the Nationals.
You're quite right in that it could have been any of those factors involved. I only have the information second hand as it was passed on at a club presentation night on the Tassie Nats. If Daz is around he may be able to add to this as he was there and I think he may have mentioned something about it once before. Edited by Daryl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I recalled an incident that happened with the SEQ National team in Tassie this year. Upon arrival the team was placed in holding cages, the bottoms of which were lined with lucerne. The birds began to eat some of the lucerne and in a short time a number of birds had become ill with heavy diarrohea and had to be scratched from the show. One of Henry George's birds was still sick some weeks after returning from this show.
Is there evidence to support this statement such as a vet diagnosis or is it heresay ? Reason I ask is that the airtravel alone involved in getting birds to the nationals, ( in some cases two plane trips for some of these birds going to Tassie :D ) added to the fact all birds are in together with other team birds they have never lived with ( NO quarantine as is the normal practice ) and the known fact that a lot of birds that go to the Nationals get sick either there or on their return.STRESS, TRAVEL, CONFINEMENT, OTHER BIRDS POSSIBLY CARRIERS OF ILLNESS, NO QUARANTINE, CHANGE OF FOOD.....Tell me these things arent a part of a bird getting sick going to the Nationals.
You're quite right in that it could have been any of those factors involved. I only have the information second hand as it was passed on at a club presentation night on the Tassie Nats. If Daz is around he may be able to add to this as he was there and I think he may have mentioned something about it once before.

 

If the lucerne was truly the culprit for sick birds then wouldnt all the Nationals birds get sick not just ones from one team in one holding cage ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I recalled an incident that happened with the SEQ National team in Tassie this year. Upon arrival the team was placed in holding cages, the bottoms of which were lined with lucerne. The birds began to eat some of the lucerne and in a short time a number of birds had become ill with heavy diarrohea and had to be scratched from the show. One of Henry George's birds was still sick some weeks after returning from this show.
Is there evidence to support this statement such as a vet diagnosis or is it heresay ? Reason I ask is that the airtravel alone involved in getting birds to the nationals, ( in some cases two plane trips for some of these birds going to Tassie :D ) added to the fact all birds are in together with other team birds they have never lived with ( NO quarantine as is the normal practice ) and the known fact that a lot of birds that go to the Nationals get sick either there or on their return.STRESS, TRAVEL, CONFINEMENT, OTHER BIRDS POSSIBLY CARRIERS OF ILLNESS, NO QUARANTINE, CHANGE OF FOOD.....Tell me these things arent a part of a bird getting sick going to the Nationals.
You're quite right in that it could have been any of those factors involved. I only have the information second hand as it was passed on at a club presentation night on the Tassie Nats. If Daz is around he may be able to add to this as he was there and I think he may have mentioned something about it once before.

 

If the lucerne was truly the culprit for sick birds then wouldnt all the Nationals birds get sick not just ones from one team in one holding cage ?

 

I think the SEQ team may have been the first penned. Again, will need someone else to confirm the details.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LACTOSE INTOLERANCE

 

I cannot for the life of me find any documentary evidence of this. We hear it all the time, repeated like one of those urban legends. Maybe there is truth to it maybe not.

But I did find this

 

Milk. Many experts claim you should not allow your bird to have milk or dairy products. They seem to believe that birds are like people who suffer from lactose intolerance. While birds do not have an enzyme for digesting lactose, this does not mean they have the same adverse reaction seen when lactose-intolerant people drink it. Indeed, milk is rich in protein and calcium. Because of this, many respected, mostly early, aviculturalists offered it to their birds. Bechstein found milk very beneficial for birds in the early nineteenth century; Low believed it was important to provide it to birds when they are rearing their young; while Stoodley advocated providing skim milk as a source of essential amino acids. Lee, one of the first to hand rear parrots, included dilute raw cow or goat milk in the formula he fed every few hours to African gray chicks . The argument against milk is that certain bacteria, if present in the bird’s gut in the bird’s gut, will ferment the lactose and cause diarrhea. It is true that the presence of lactose in a chicken’s diet does yield less “compact” excreta , but it is hard tell if a bird has diarrhea since both urine and fecal matter collect in the cloaca and are expelled together . Thus, this may only be a problem for maintaining cleanliness.

 

Of course, one should not allow one’s bird to overindulge, and in the case of caiques this is very unlikely. Avian nutritionist Tom Roudybush (87) did not see any problem with providing parrots with milk, especially low fat milk, as long as the bird’s total diet contained less than 10 percent lactose. Several studies indicate that lactose can comprise up to 20 percent of the diet without adversely affecting the growth of young chickens. While another study indicated that feeding lactose to young chickens actually accelerated their growth. Some recent studies suggest that lactose can serve as a “prebiotic” that helps fend off some bacterial infections in chickens. I agree with Roudybush that feeding milk in small amounts is not harmful, and my pets often share my breakfast of milk and cereal even though I do not offer it as a regular menu item.

 

If you remain concerned about lactose, you can still feed your bird a dairy product. One of these is the whey protein isolated as a byproduct of cheese making. Modern production methods now render this quite pure and free of lactose. You can buy whey in health food stores catering to the body builders. The other lactose free dairy products are those that are fermented in their production, i.e. yogurt and cheese. While young cheeses still contain some lactose, the general rule is the older the cheese the less lactose. Both yogurt and cheese are excellent sources of calcium and amino acids that parrots need, especially when they are breeding. The chief problem with these is that they usually contain high levels of saturated fats. I provide my caiques with a small half-inch cube or smaller of cheddar cheese daily. They tend to prefer yellow cheese to white cheese.

 

http://caiquesite.com/Foods/dangerous_human_foods.htm

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LACTOSE INTOLERANCE

I cannot for the life of me find any documentary evidence of this. We hear it all the time, repeated like one of those urban legends. Maybe there is truth to it maybe not.

But I did find this

 

If you remain concerned about lactose, you can still feed your bird a dairy product. One of these is the whey protein isolated as a byproduct of cheese making. Modern production methods now render this quite pure and free of lactose. You can buy whey in health food stores catering to the body builders. The other lactose free dairy products are those that are fermented in their production, i.e. yogurt and cheese. While young cheeses still contain some lactose, the general rule is the older the cheese the less lactose. Both yogurt and cheese are excellent sources of calcium and amino acids that parrots need, especially when they are breeding. The chief problem with these is that they usually contain high levels of saturated fats. I provide my caiques with a small half-inch cube or smaller of cheddar cheese daily. They tend to prefer yellow cheese to white cheese.

http://caiquesite.com/Foods/dangerous_human_foods.htm

Excellent news! I had some concerns about this point and am so glad the Muscle XL formula that I add to my soft food is whey protein based will not put an extra strain on my birds kidneys. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LACTOSE INTOLERANCE

I cannot for the life of me find any documentary evidence of this. We hear it all the time, repeated like one of those urban legends. Maybe there is truth to it maybe not.

But I did find this

 

If you remain concerned about lactose, you can still feed your bird a dairy product. One of these is the whey protein isolated as a byproduct of cheese making. Modern production methods now render this quite pure and free of lactose. You can buy whey in health food stores catering to the body builders. The other lactose free dairy products are those that are fermented in their production, i.e. yogurt and cheese. While young cheeses still contain some lactose, the general rule is the older the cheese the less lactose. Both yogurt and cheese are excellent sources of calcium and amino acids that parrots need, especially when they are breeding. The chief problem with these is that they usually contain high levels of saturated fats. I provide my caiques with a small half-inch cube or smaller of cheddar cheese daily. They tend to prefer yellow cheese to white cheese.

http://caiquesite.com/Foods/dangerous_human_foods.htm

Excellent news! I had some concerns about this point and am so glad the Muscle XL formula that I add to my soft food is whey protein based will not put an extra strain on my birds kidneys. :D

There is a difference between whey protein and whey protein isolate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is a difference between whey protein and whey protein isolate.

Just checked the ingredients, it says whey isolate - that's good, right? :D

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just checked the ingredients, it says whey isolate - that's good, right? :D

Yes....its the best kind :)

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes....its the best kind :)

 

Yipee! :D

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I recalled an incident that happened with the SEQ National team in Tassie this year. Upon arrival the team was placed in holding cages, the bottoms of which were lined with lucerne. The birds began to eat some of the lucerne and in a short time a number of birds had become ill with heavy diarrohea and had to be scratched from the show. One of Henry George's birds was still sick some weeks after returning from this show.
Is there evidence to support this statement such as a vet diagnosis or is it heresay ? Reason I ask is that the airtravel alone involved in getting birds to the nationals, ( in some cases two plane trips for some of these birds going to Tassie :D ) added to the fact all birds are in together with other team birds they have never lived with ( NO quarantine as is the normal practice ) and the known fact that a lot of birds that go to the Nationals get sick either there or on their return.STRESS, TRAVEL, CONFINEMENT, OTHER BIRDS POSSIBLY CARRIERS OF ILLNESS, NO QUARANTINE, CHANGE OF FOOD.....Tell me these things arent a part of a bird getting sick going to the Nationals.
You're quite right in that it could have been any of those factors involved. I only have the information second hand as it was passed on at a club presentation night on the Tassie Nats. If Daz is around he may be able to add to this as he was there and I think he may have mentioned something about it once before.

 

If the lucerne was truly the culprit for sick birds then wouldnt all the Nationals birds get sick not just ones from one team in one holding cage ?

 

I think the SEQ team may have been the first penned. Again, will need someone else to confirm the details.

 

 

Apparently they gorged themselves on, and werent used to it. Sickness can result from any change in diet.

I find the lucerne chaff really good, birds love both the chaff and fresh lucerne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My birds all came back fine from the Nationals, but they do get fresh lucerne occaisionaly.

PT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My birds all came back fine from the Nationals, but they do get fresh lucerne occaisionaly.

PT

 

 

PT where might a person get fresh lucerne ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My birds all came back fine from the Nationals, but they do get fresh lucerne occaisionaly.

PT

 

 

PT where might a person get fresh lucerne ?

 

I grow it in my backyard. It is a perennial and is sort of dormant during winter (although it still grows).

My birds go berserk over it.

Cheers

PT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just checked the ingredients, it says whey isolate - that's good, right? :D

Yes....its the best kind :D

 

I wish you would have mentioned that Muscle XL was a whey protein isolate and not whey protein in the beginning. :D Would have saved a lot of discussion. I also coudn't find mention of this at the link at the horse shop where you buy it nor after a few more google searches. However I guess we have all learnt something from it and as you mentioned a few pages back this has been somewhat of a fact finding mission. I'll have to ask my pellet reseller what he thinks of lactose free whey protein isolate. On the face of it I reckon it'd be okay pending any further input from him.

 

PT where might a person get fresh lucerne ?

 

KAZ, you're not gunna believe this but we used to get a heap of dried lucerne in guess what? Dried guinea pig food B) It also contained rolled oats, pressed corn and, you guessed it, guinea pig pellets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah i feed my birds jack rabbit as i mentioned just a handful to the seed i never heard birds getting sick from it and my birds dont ,... dried lucerne that is in the feed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I recalled an incident that happened with the SEQ National team in Tassie this year. Upon arrival the team was placed in holding cages, the bottoms of which were lined with lucerne. The birds began to eat some of the lucerne and in a short time a number of birds had become ill with heavy diarrohea and had to be scratched from the show. One of Henry George's birds was still sick some weeks after returning from this show.
Is there evidence to support this statement such as a vet diagnosis or is it heresay ? Reason I ask is that the airtravel alone involved in getting birds to the nationals, ( in some cases two plane trips for some of these birds going to Tassie B) ) added to the fact all birds are in together with other team birds they have never lived with ( NO quarantine as is the normal practice ) and the known fact that a lot of birds that go to the Nationals get sick either there or on their return.STRESS, TRAVEL, CONFINEMENT, OTHER BIRDS POSSIBLY CARRIERS OF ILLNESS, NO QUARANTINE, CHANGE OF FOOD.....Tell me these things arent a part of a bird getting sick going to the Nationals.
You're quite right in that it could have been any of those factors involved. I only have the information second hand as it was passed on at a club presentation night on the Tassie Nats. If Daz is around he may be able to add to this as he was there and I think he may have mentioned something about it once before.

 

If the lucerne was truly the culprit for sick birds then wouldnt all the Nationals birds get sick not just ones from one team in one holding cage ?

 

I think the SEQ team may have been the first penned. Again, will need someone else to confirm the details.

 

 

Apparently they gorged themselves on, and werent used to it. Sickness can result from any change in diet.

I find the lucerne chaff really good, birds love both the chaff and fresh lucerne.

 

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. They are always telling us not to increase the fiber in our diets too suddenly! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Full to empty in half a day DSCF0642.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Full to empty in half a day DSCF0642.jpg

Nothings changed...they are still going through a bowl a day of the pellets and I am buying it on a regular basis now...$2.70 for 2 kilos. No poopy bottoms, no scouring, no illness.

Renee, how are yours going on it ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nothings changed...they are still going through a bowl a day of the pellets and I am buying it on a regular basis now...$2.70 for 2 kilos. No poopy bottoms, no scouring, no illness.

Renee, how are yours going on it ?

 

Well I have been adding it to the soft food mix - mainly for the benefit of the older budgies that are reluctant to try new things and also because I wanted to bring down the amount of hulled oats I was giving them.

 

So previously the mix was 5 cups of hulled oats to aprox. 1 kilo of apples and carrots and now it is 1 cup of hulled oats and 3 cups of Milnes Rabbit pellets.

 

The older budgies don't eat all of them but the young uns eat it all down to dust.

 

No signs of ill heath at all, I give it a 10 out of 10 ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×