Jump to content
**KAZ**

Rabbit And Guinea Pig Pellets For Budgies ?

Recommended Posts

Catherine    0

Thank you for your thought-provoking article. I take issue only with your remark about Ladas. :) I drove a super-reliable Lada Cevaro for 11 years. Everyone told me not to buy it but it was a good car and I enjoyed it. I sold it and it is still doing well 6 years later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
Thank you for your thought-provoking article. I take issue only with your remark about Ladas. :) I drove a super-reliable Lada Cevaro for 11 years. Everyone told me not to buy it but it was a good car and I enjoyed it. I sold it and it is still doing well 6 years later.
Use quote brackets or reply so you can show where Ladas were mentioned.

 

I was at a top national budgie breeders earlier today and noticed a vast difference in the size and power of his birds.....knowing him and the birds he had in his aviary a year ago, I know the difference to be the addition of both whole egg powder and meat protein ( essentially chicken based ).

 

Additional to this I am going to mention that this particular breeder is feeding chicken daily to the birds. Every budgie in a breeder cage is getting a good tablespoon each day of ground chicken with ground bone through it ( chicken necks cooked for hours to remove fat, and to soften bones and then put through a mincer ) and they are eating the lot.

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daryl    0
Lastly, if I could feed my birds anything with supreme nutritional confidence it would be sprouted foods! Those things are nutritional powerhouses! If only sprouting was easier, or buying sprouted foods was cheaper :(

Dean,

 

Sprouting is not hard once you discover a method that works for you. There are lots of methods that people are happy with but I will briefly outline what works for me:

 

1. Soak seed mix for a maximum of 12 hours in clean water (I haven't determined a minimum time required yet but even 6 hours works. I'm just not home after 6 hours of soaking).

2. Drain and rinse well (very well) and drain again.

3. Rinse every 12 hours (or more often if possible) until seed is sprouted to the length your happy with (1-3 days depending on climate and seed types used).

 

Tips:Keeping it clean. The one thing you want to avoid is the seed going sour. Some people use a small amount of bleach (or Avi-Clens or the like) in the soaking/rinsing process. I've heard it said that the seed does not absorb the chlorine and so is harmless. I prefer not to take the chance and keep the seed fresh by frequent rinsing (even just before feeding to the birds). If I'm in doubt about the smell of the sprouts on the day of feeding I'll just throw them away (hardly ever have to do this). I've been feeding sprouted seeds for a few years now and I don't think any bird has gotten sick from the sprouts as yet.

 

Seed choice. At the moment I'm using a mix of mung beans, grey sunflower, racehorse oats, wheat and corn. I'm always open to trying another grain. I used to sprout the standard budgie mix but it is much more prone to going sour (some say it's the Jap millet, I never did work out which of the 3 seeds was the problem).

 

Container. I use a stainless steel one, glass is okay too. Plastic is prone to absorbing the bacteria and accelerating the process of your seed going off.That's it. Like I said, if anyone has any other seeds/legumes they sprout (and which are fairly easily obtainable) I'm all ears!

 

 

Thank you for your thought-provoking article. I take issue only with your remark about Ladas. :huh: I drove a super-reliable Lada Cevaro for 11 years. Everyone told me not to buy it but it was a good car and I enjoyed it. I sold it and it is still doing well 6 years later.

 

Now what was the chance that there was a Lada driver on this forum? ;) Glad to hear you got a good run with yours, but they did get a very bad rap in the media when introduced to this country for their variable quality.

 

 

I was at a top national budgie breeders earlier today and noticed a vast difference in the size and power of his birds.....knowing him and the birds he had in his aviary a year ago, I know the difference to be the addition of both whole egg powder and meat protein ( essentially chicken based ).
Additional to this I am going to mention that this particular breeder is feeding chicken daily to the birds. Every budgie in a breeder cage is getting a good tablespoon each day of ground chicken with ground bone through it ( chicken necks cooked for hours to remove fat, and to soften bones and then put through a mincer ) and they are eating the lot.

 

I guess if he's going to this much trouble he deserves to get results. I would think that the "chicken diet" would only be suitable for those who are able to remove the uneaten portion within a few hours of feeding. Here in QLD, unless your birdroom was aircon'd or the birds got your undivided attention I think it would be fairly difficult to feed chicken safely. But it's amazing what you can get budgies to eat if you try. I might grab some KFC for lunch. I wonder if any of my birds would care to share a 2-piece feed or a cup of popcorn chicken with me? :lol::lol::lol:

Edited by Daryl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
I might grab some KFC for lunch. I wonder if any of my birds would care to share a 2-piece feed or a cup of popcorn chicken with me? :lol::lol::huh:

 

 

Nah...too much fat ;):lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daryl    0

Forgot to add, do you have any other details of the diet this breeder is feeding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
Forgot to add, do you have any other details of the diet this breeder is feeding?

I will get his traditional soft food recipe and post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GenericBlue    0

this is very interesting thread pitty i fall asleep when i read alot :lol:

 

however between waking and reading

i just want to add

i belive chicken really does benifit the birds

i done this carcass method for years birds love it and as kaz said no longer than 1 to two hours in aviry

they do devour it all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daryl    0
and the link to your pellets I find that the pellets you are using ALSO have molasses in them as a key ingredient :lol:

http://www.birdandpet.com.au/documents/products_7.html

 

Wow, you're right, I never saw that before and I've looked at it quite a few times. I'll have to ask the guy how much is in it and why it's there. Interesting.

 

 

An Update:

 

Solved one mystery as to why I couldn't recall molasses being in the pellets; because it isn't! The label shown on the link above is an old mix. When I checked my package I found a few ingredients had changed from the web link including the removal of molasses. Here's my pellet package:

 

pelletcontents.jpg

 

It's now the end of day 2 of my experiment to replace the dry seed in the diet of 8 birds with the pellets above. They have just eaten all the seed and, although they are eating the pellets, there is a lot of commotion going on in the bowl as they are obviously searching for the seed. So, whoever said there was less wastage with pellets hasn't seen a mob of frustrated budgies playing soccer with the stuff. :lol: I did a top up just to make sure no one goes hungry.

Edited by Daryl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0

Can you contact the makers of those pellets and ask why they removed the molasses ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daryl    0
Can you contact the makers of those pellets and ask why they removed the molasses ?

 

That's exactly what I'll be doing tomorrow. In person. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
Can you contact the makers of those pellets and ask why they removed the molasses ?

 

That's exactly what I'll be doing tomorrow. In person. :lol:

Tomorrow I will talk to the merchant of the rabbit and guinea pig pellets and see if he has an exact breakdown of those ingredients too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay,I know I am going to seem really silly here, but I am majorly confused. I have a couple of questions.

1. What form does whey protein come in?

2. So are the pellets okay for budgies or not? (rabbits & guinea pigs)

3. What brand of rabbit pellets is it, and how much are they?

 

Sorry, But I am so confused about the debating and all the posts :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
okay,I know I am going to seem really silly here, but I am majorly confused. I have a couple of questions.

1. What form does whey protein come in? Its a powder .....looks like milk powder and smells like vanilla

2. So are the pellets okay for budgies or not? (rabbits & guinea pigs) my budgies think so B)

3. What brand of rabbit pellets is it, and how much are they? Not a brand....bought from a stock feed merchant who bags it up from large sacks. I paid $2.70 for a kilo

 

Sorry, But I am so confused about the debating and all the posts :)

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thankyou Kaz

two more questions... (sorry) How could you give whey protein to your birds if they don't eat soft food? Put it in their water?

When you buy it does it need to be a special 'bird' product?

Edited by Squeak_Crumble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
Thankyou Kaz

One more question... (sorry) How could you give whey protein to your birds if they don't eat soft food? Put it in their water?

Teach them that soft food is good......you can start by using some quick cooking dry porridge oats mixed with some budgie starter and water. You probably dont need the whey protein right now anyway, but you should start giving soft food or soaked seed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heathrow    0
At the end of it all though I still believe the reason that the top breeders have the monster size birds they do is through years of selective breeding (although your point about the breeder you visited is not lost on me). Feeding plays a part in allowing the birds to reach their potential. If feeding played the major part in growing huge birds then I'd expect ALL of the top breeders' birds to be huge, not a select few. If it ain't in the genes then no amount of protein is going to grow a monster size bird. So much for us to learn........ :)

 

I havn't contributed to the forum for some time, but i will for this topic.

I totally support the above statement. For each breeder that is supplementing with very high protein levels, I could name the same amount of top show breeders who aren't. I know a top breeder, on a par with Cec Gearing who doesnt use any softfood or high protein additives. What he does use, are a wide range of fruit and vegatables to supplement his normal seed.

 

I also think the debate, greatly underestimates the ability of breeders, to select and use correctly the very best bloodlines available. Like Daryl states feeding plays a part in the birds reaching ther potential ONLY. Meaning genetics has a far bigger role to play in becoming a TOP breeder.

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
splat    0

I soak seed every night and next morning I put my soft food mixture which I make up consisting of varies ingredients but I use to use Passwell budgie starter and crumbles which is much easier.

for example 14 breeding cages I soak 1/2 a cup of each of hulled oats and wheat over night with avicleans to stop bacteria.

then the next morning I rinse it well and drain it.

Mix 2 tablespoons of budgie starter to I tablespoon of crumbles to the soaked seed.

Twice a week I add 1 hard boiled egg (shelland all blended in a blender) and grated carrot.

I also add 1/4 teaspoon of Vetafarm Soluvet, it is a multi vitamin.

 

With this mixture I just put it in the breeding cages every morning and adventurely the birds start eating it, once they start they can't wait for it to turn up each morning.

But there is one warning once you choose what soft food you want to use you should stick to it until the end of the breeding because this year I made a big mistake and changed mind half way through and it turned the birds off because of the change. Well this is what I was told. Because birds started feather plucking etc which they never did before and don't do now. Budgies don't like sudden change.

Hope this helps.

I also give my birds wholemeal bread at night and all flights also and they eat it like it is going out of fashion but at first they never touched it. It takes them a while to try something new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
renee    0
At the end of it all though I still believe the reason that the top breeders have the monster size birds they do is through years of selective breeding (although your point about the breeder you visited is not lost on me). Feeding plays a part in allowing the birds to reach their potential. If feeding played the major part in growing huge birds then I'd expect ALL of the top breeders' birds to be huge, not a select few. If it ain't in the genes then no amount of protein is going to grow a monster size bird. So much for us to learn........ :)

 

I havn't contributed to the forum for some time, but i will for this topic.

I totally support the above statement. For each breeder that is supplementing with very high protein levels, I could name the same amount of top show breeders who aren't. I know a top breeder, on a par with Cec Gearing who doesnt use any softfood or high protein additives. What he does use, are a wide range of fruit and vegatables to supplement his normal seed.

 

I also think the debate, greatly underestimates the ability of breeders, to select and use correctly the very best bloodlines available. Like Daryl states feeding plays a part in the birds reaching ther potential ONLY. Meaning genetics has a far bigger role to play in becoming a TOP breeder.

I too am following this thread with great interest. B)

 

I concur with Daryl and Heathrow's statement above. :D

 

I don't like the idea of feeding molasses to my birds but am really interested in the Small Bird pellets that Daryl has posted and look forward to Kaz's contribution tomorrow when she talks to the supplier of her pellets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
At the end of it all though I still believe the reason that the top breeders have the monster size birds they do is through years of selective breeding (although your point about the breeder you visited is not lost on me). Feeding plays a part in allowing the birds to reach their potential. If feeding played the major part in growing huge birds then I'd expect ALL of the top breeders' birds to be huge, not a select few. If it ain't in the genes then no amount of protein is going to grow a monster size bird. So much for us to learn........ :D

 

I havn't contributed to the forum for some time, but i will for this topic.

I totally support the above statement. For each breeder that is supplementing with very high protein levels, I could name the same amount of top show breeders who aren't. I know a top breeder, on a par with Cec Gearing who doesnt use any softfood or high protein additives. What he does use, are a wide range of fruit and vegatables to supplement his normal seed.

 

I also think the debate, greatly underestimates the ability of breeders, to select and use correctly the very best bloodlines available. Like Daryl states feeding plays a part in the birds reaching ther potential ONLY. Meaning genetics has a far bigger role to play in becoming a TOP breeder.

 

Well hasnt this gone off an a tangent :)B)

My point is and has alweays been that EXTRAS, all kinds of them are good for our birds. VARIETY is good for our birds. PROTEIN is good for our birds. My point is not that I believe that top breeders improvements are solely due to additional protein......I am trying to say the additional protein methods being employed by some breeders I know personally are IMPROVING their birds. It would be OBVIOUS that YES their breeding is improving their birds too.

BUT....................I am hearing from the very breeders themselves who I refer to that the ADDITIONAL PROTEIN is what they are saying has made a huge difference.

-_-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GenericBlue    0

to be honest i never thought of feeding pellets as i never knew you could get them in vic

i never ever seen them and my vets never promoted them

as for soaked seed honestly i couldn't trust myself not to poison my birds with it its a shallow line between ready and to far with my memory i would just kill my birds

 

as most of you would know from other posts on feeding

i give my birds lots of things ,bread daily being main one

all kinds this week they had brown rye and cinnamon fruit loaf with icing i think i will take to just giving them fruit loaf again i was giving scrolls as the cinnamon in them they love

they get all veg and fuit exept avacardo onion basiclly food toxic to them

i give only pink mineral mix with aniseed in it (pigion vitimin mix ) cant remember its name sorry

i do give cooked rice and vegies in it sometime i flavor todays was saffron rice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
splat    0

I agree with Daryl and Heathrow also but that's what Kaz is saying too.

If it's not in their gentic makeup it doesn't matter how protein you feed them it won't make little birds huge or short fine feathered birds have plenty of or dense feathering

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
I agree with Daryl and Heathrow also but that's what Kaz is saying too.

If it's not in their gentic makeup it doesn't matter how protein you feed them it won't make little birds huge or short fine feathered birds have plenty of or dense feathering

I think Heathrow, Renee and Daryl may have misunderstood my point. Read my post above Guys :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
renee    0
I agree with Daryl and Heathrow also but that's what Kaz is saying too.

If it's not in their gentic makeup it doesn't matter how protein you feed them it won't make little birds huge or short fine feathered birds have plenty of or dense feathering

I think Heathrow, Renee and Daryl may have misunderstood my point. Read my post above Guys :D

No, I've understood the initial premise of your post perfectly :)

 

Just that as it has developed I have found certain comments more thought provoking and have chimed in when someone expressed a view I had been thinking.

 

Great idea about feeding pellets as a supplement BUT I would prefer a local supply of molasses free version so I await with bated breath.

 

The great (meat) protein debate is one I am very interested in. I acknowledge that I will have to take that step but am reluctant to do so .... in the meantime I look forward to all input on the subject as I determine exactly HOW I will give it to my birds. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daryl    0
I agree with Daryl and Heathrow also but that's what Kaz is saying too.

If it's not in their gentic makeup it doesn't matter how protein you feed them it won't make little birds huge or short fine feathered birds have plenty of or dense feathering

I think Heathrow, Renee and Daryl may have misunderstood my point. Read my post above Guys :D

 

 

Not sure about misunderstanding Kaz, I think perhaps you have softened your stance a little. This is your statement that I think people are responding to:

 

I was at a top national budgie breeders earlier today and noticed a vast difference in the size and power of his birds.....knowing him and the birds he had in his aviary a year ago, I know the difference to be the addition of both whole egg powder and meat protein ( essentially chicken based ).

 

Anyway, I dropped in to the retailer/manufacturer where I purchased my pellets today to find out about the molasses content. It seems there is still a very small component of molasses in the pellets. I asked why and he said it was for the nutrient value molasses provides. The label had changed to meet legal requirements for disclosure of some other ingredients. He said that higher amounts of molasses would not be good for birds for the reasons I outlined earlier but that the small amount in the Small Bird pellets was fine.

 

I also asked about the suitability of feeding guinea pig pellets to budgies and he was concerned with the fact that they contained lucerne which he believes is too high in fibre for budgies and likely to scour them (he used some other terms but I've forgotten them :D ). It was at this point I recalled an incident that happened with the SEQ National team in Tassie this year. Upon arrival the team was placed in holding cages, the bottoms of which were lined with lucerne. The birds began to eat some of the lucerne and in a short time a number of birds had become ill with heavy diarrohea and had to be scratched from the show. One of Henry George's birds was still sick some weeks after returning from this show. Based on this I'm not sure that the guinea pig pellets are a good idea long term.

 

The business proprietor I spoke to studied Avian and Animal Nutrition for 4-5 years whilst establishing his business. I asked him about the use of whey protein as none of his products have it. He confirmed what I had mentioned earlier in that birds are lactose intolerant and therefore unable to assimilate the protein from this source. In high enough quantities it could cause intestinal problems. Perhaps the reason that this hasn't been the case with many so far is that they are not consuming massive quantities. Anyway, the short of it is that even if it doesn't make them ill it's not providing them with much extra usable protein as it's not assimilated. A dropping swab could help to confirm this.

 

I asked him about the feeding of meat and chicken too. (I think) he stated something along the lines of budgies' digestive systems not being designed to handle this. Also said something about the budgies droppings going black and why it was bad but I've forgotten the details ;) . He was also extremely concerned with the health risk posed by decaying meat if left uneaten. Perhaps the birds are thriving in spite of eating meat, not because of it. I can understand breeders wanting to feed red meat in particular as it is a fairly complete protein. But, as Dean stated earlier you can also achieve this through a balanced diet of grains and legumes, both of which are assimilated by budgies.

 

I guess my overall concern here is that meeting the protein requirements of a budgie with red meat, chicken, milk derivatives and guinea pig pellets seems to be running the gauntlet when compared with achieving the same thing through sprouts, grains and lentils, pellets with an amino acid profile designed specifically for birds and perhaps the addition of egg powder if desired, all of which ARE going to be digested by budgies. On our club visit to Henry George's birdroom (winner of the most National awards in the history of the ANBC) I saw no cooked chickens, no sizzling steaks, no whey products and not a guinea pig pellet in sight. His feeding methods in the breeding cages were quite modest by what some of us do here and yet he has managed to achieve more than any of us in regards to breeding winning birds.

 

Finally, most things in moderation is generally the key to life. The use of what may be deemed high amounts of protein is actually detrimental to the health of our birds and will not promote super levels of muscular and feather growth just as insufficient protein will hinder the development of such. Excess protein is removed by the kidneys and passed out through the droppings rendering it as a wasted supplement and thus money down the gurgler. Ingestion of excessive protein for a prolonged period will actually damage the kidneys. The budgie pellets have 15% protein which I was told today is plenty. But equally as important is that they contain the correct balance of amino acids to make up this protein.

 

I hope this is of use to some here. As Kaz has pointed out there ARE top breeders using alternative feeding methods and they are successful. The one common thread each of these methods shares is variety. As the saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat (where did that stupid saying come from anyway?). It's up to each of us to choose which path we feel comfortable with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**KAZ**    0
I agree with Daryl and Heathrow also but that's what Kaz is saying too.

If it's not in their gentic makeup it doesn't matter how protein you feed them it won't make little birds huge or short fine feathered birds have plenty of or dense feathering

I think Heathrow, Renee and Daryl may have misunderstood my point. Read my post above Guys :D

 

 

Not sure about misunderstanding Kaz, I think perhaps you have softened your stance a little. This is your statement that I think people are responding to:

 

I was at a top national budgie breeders earlier today and noticed a vast difference in the size and power of his birds.....knowing him and the birds he had in his aviary a year ago, I know the difference to be the addition of both whole egg powder and meat protein ( essentially chicken based ).

 

 

 

 

There will always be some form of misunderstanding in the written word. I emphasise my original intent in that statement of the word ADDITION which places the context of what I was saying in its correct perspective.

 

Great topic though and many things unearthed....stands to have more investigation and additional facts added to the mix so we are all better informed. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×