cheekfood 0 Posted July 28, 2009 Member ID: 4,748 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 235 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 16/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: February 12, 2010 Birthday: 18/08/1984 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Hey everyone, I've had Cheeky for about 9 months, previous to that he's always lived at my boyfriend's place in a big cage outdoors with a bourke parrot which they rescued. In total Cheeky has been around for about 4-6 years, we're not exactly sure how long. Anyway, recently Cheeky started behaving unusually. His feathers were constantly all fluffed up, he was very lethargic - eating sleeping eating sleeping. So I took him to the Vet and they looked at his droppings, checked his beak, etc. and told me he most likely has some form of liver disease, the darkish patch on his beak also suggests that he may have injured his beak somehow and his blood didn't clot properly, also Cheeky is extremely light 35grams I think he said which means that he may be feeling sick / nauseous and so haven't been feeling like eating. The vet told me I had three choices on what I could do: 1. Take the bird home and hand feed (force feed) him antibiotics and food so he can gain some weight to get better. 2. Leave the bird at the vet and they will do it and I pick Cheeky up after 5 days. 3. Don't do anything I chose 2, because Cheeky is not a tame bird and it would cause a lot of stress for him with my unexperienced hand trying to inject antibiotics into his beak. So the vet took him and did all this and after 5 days I rang and they said he is doing great and I can pick him up. I do so, get home and Cheeky still looks the same to me. I'm not saying they didn't do as they said - but when I asked the vet about it a few days later, how he still looks the same, he said there's not much more they can do for him. Anyhow, its been a week or so now since Cheeky's been back and he is still the same if not worse. He doesn't eat properly, he picks at the seed and I'm thinking maybe he is having trouble eating the seed because his beak is not completely normal. What foods do I have to buy or prepare that can be eaten without him having to do anything to it? And has anyone else had the vet tell them about liver disease, if so, any experiences to share?? He looks very sick - his wings are down, he's always fluffed up and either sits sleeping or peck at the seeds - all the seeds look untouched except the larger seeds in the seed mix which makes me think he can't eat the smaller ones because of his beak maybe. My boyfriend says that just before one of their other budgies died a while ago it was always fluffed up and it became unafraid of people for an untame bird just days before he passed away..and Cheeky is the same at the moment, he is not afraid of me. What can I do to help him eat more...Desperately need help!! Edited July 30, 2009 by KAZ Link to comment
**KAZ** 0 Posted July 28, 2009 Member ID: 1,976 Group: Site Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 521 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 25,294 Content Per Day: 1.28 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 152,977 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 24/01/06 Status: Offline Last Seen: January 6, 2015 Birthday: 07/01/1956 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Try some soft food for him....soak some triticale wheat and hulled oats for 3-4 hours, rinse it and serve. .....try adding extras to it...vitamins, calcivet, egg...whatever you think he will try. Best of luck with him. Its very disheartening to watch a bird go downhill and you feel so helpless Edited July 28, 2009 by KAZ Link to comment
Chrysocome 0 Posted July 28, 2009 Member ID: 2,476 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 78 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 607 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 4,290 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/07/06 Status: Offline Last Seen: March 14, 2013 Birthday: 28/02/1987 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) So sorry to hear about Cheeky. Was this an avian vet you took him to? What tests were done and which antibiotics did they give him? Pet birds are quite commonly diagnosed with liver disease, most often due to an all seed diet. What is his normal diet? The liver is responsible for blood clotting, digesting food, growth of beak and nails and for getting rid of byproducts of blood. At first the birds are usually overweight but then they get thinner as they are no longer digesting properly. They start clotting inappropriately (bleeding, or clotting in the wrong place). When the blood byproducts can't go to the right place they end up in the urate of their poo, staining the normally white solid portion green or yellow. The nails and beak will often grow abnormally. Does your bird show any of these signs? From what you have described, all I can tell you is that you have a sick bird, as they often look like this- fluffed, lethargic, don't want to eat, often runny poo. (But I can't see the bird or do any tests for you, and I don't know what specific tests the vet did). Regardless of cause, I think you need to set up hospital conditions for Cheeky - keep him warm with plenty of water and food available. It is possible he's pretending to eat when he pecks at the food, to fool you (birds are prey animals, they try to appear healthy so that predators don't pick them off), but he feels too sick to actually get much of it down. He is obviously getting something to be still getting on, but it may not be enough to keep him going for an extended time. You really need to get food into him, any way you can. You may have to learn to crop feed if you feel he isn't eating enough. If he hasn't been drinking you may need to very slowly put one drop of water at a time into his beak. Now, "liver disease" is not a specific diagnosis. There are many causes of liver diseases, including bacteria (such as Chlamydia) and diet. The most common one as I mentioned is all-seed diet and it causes a condition called "fatty liver". I do not mean to imply you are not feeding a good diet as I don't know what you feed for the moment, but it is the most common and I'll go ahead and talk about it so you don't have to wait to get a reply. There is no specific treatment for fatty liver other than giving him good vitamins and nutrition, keeping him warm and hydrated, to support the entire body while the liver recovers. This is a slow process. Many avian vets are now suggesting the use of milk thistle to help support the liver, same as in people. It certainly does no harm and it might be worth trying to get him to eat some. A common bacterial cause of liver disease would be Chlamydia or psittacosis, although it usually produces some respiratory signs as well such as sneezing or runny eyes. This would be treated with antibiotics, for Chlamydia particularly doxycycline is used. There are other bacteria that can cause liver disease, so they may have used a broad spectrum antibiotic for Cheeky. Edited July 28, 2009 by Chrysocome Link to comment
mysixbabies 0 Posted July 28, 2009 Member ID: 3,449 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 987 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 5,965 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 30/05/07 Status: Offline Last Seen: November 3, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2009 so sorry Link to comment
cheekfood 0 Posted July 30, 2009 Member ID: 4,748 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 235 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 16/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: February 12, 2010 Birthday: 18/08/1984 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the responses. Triticale, wheat and hulled oats, are these usually available from Coles or Woolies? I bought some crumble mix but he isn't eating that, nor is he eating any small chopped up carrots, celery or apple, I tried putting them in his food and separate as well but no good. He only eats the larger seeds inside the seed mix, they look like Triticale or wheat. He looks like he wants to eat, but whether that is him trying to cover his sickness or not, I couldn't be sure. I took him to my local vet where I take my dogs, but the vet is trained with birds. He tested his droppings and confirmed bacteria in there which suggests liver disease, whether it is a liver tumour or liver disease he cannot confirm. He said he could do blood tests but if they did find out what the illness was there wasn't much they could do for him anyway. I think he gave him a general antibiotic and crop fed him for 5 days. I still have the needle thing from the vet. How do I crop feed him? He hates being handled, but if its the only way I could try it. Unfortunately Cheeky was always given an all seed diet only until a few months after I had him, I fed him some celery and corn which he ate. When I asked the vet how Cheeky could have gotten liver disease, he said that it is hard to say exactly, but most likely due to some sort of bacteria infection. I'm going to try the triticale, wheat and hulled oats option and see if he eats any more. And also learn about crop feeding. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. edit: just did a search about crop feeding...I feel a bit scared already...this will be a last resort. Edited July 30, 2009 by cheekfood Link to comment
mattdog2 0 Posted July 30, 2009 Member ID: 5,243 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 3,690 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 25/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 18, 2010 Birthday: 13/08/1992 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Budgie's hide their illness to the point where it's too late to save them usually... and yes they will sit their and pretend to eat... but they are only picking up the seed and dropping it again...try everything you can and hopefully he survives... where is he at the moment? is he with the bourke? Link to comment
cheekfood 0 Posted July 30, 2009 Member ID: 4,748 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 235 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 16/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: February 12, 2010 Birthday: 18/08/1984 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 He's in his own cage, the parrot is in another cage next to him. Link to comment
mattdog2 0 Posted July 30, 2009 Member ID: 5,243 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 3,690 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 25/04/09 Status: Offline Last Seen: April 18, 2010 Birthday: 13/08/1992 Share Posted July 30, 2009 He's in his own cage, the parrot is in another cage next to him. Does he have a lamp/heat-mat? they need warmth... you'd be suprised as to how much the warmth can do for them... Link to comment
cheekfood 0 Posted July 30, 2009 Member ID: 4,748 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 235 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 16/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: February 12, 2010 Birthday: 18/08/1984 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I have a heater for the room but I don't turn it on for too long because I'm afraid it will dehydrate them. I bought him one of >>these<< but he hasn't gone in yet. Just found some wheat grains and hulled oat from the health shop, couldn't get the triticale in grains - they only had it in flakes, so I'm soaking the wheat and oat grains in water at the moment, should be ready in another 1-2 hours, hopefully he'll eat lots of it. Edited July 30, 2009 by cheekfood Link to comment
**KAZ** 0 Posted July 30, 2009 Member ID: 1,976 Group: Site Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 521 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 25,294 Content Per Day: 1.28 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 152,977 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 24/01/06 Status: Offline Last Seen: January 6, 2015 Birthday: 07/01/1956 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Thanks for the responses. Triticale, wheat and hulled oats, are these usually available from Coles or Woolies?Triticale wheat and hulled oats are available from stockfeed places.I have a heater for the room but I don't turn it on for too long because I'm afraid it will dehydrate them. I bought him one of >>these<< but he hasn't gone in yet.Just found some wheat grains and hulled oat from the health shop, couldn't get the triticale in grains - they only had it in flakes, so I'm soaking the wheat and oat grains in water at the moment, should be ready in another 1-2 hours, hopefully he'll eat lots of it.Good news you found some And also learn about crop feeding. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.edit: just did a search about crop feeding...I feel a bit scared already...this will be a last resort.Crop feeding cannot be left to learn till the last minute and not by internet.......it is essential you get your vet to show you how. You may need to know how to feed by crop when a vet isnt available. Best to be shown how now rather than later. Sorry to stress the importance of this but its a valuable skill you will be glad you learnt one day. Link to comment
cheekfood 0 Posted July 30, 2009 Member ID: 4,748 Group: Site Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Achievement Points: 235 Solved Content: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 16/10/08 Status: Offline Last Seen: February 12, 2010 Birthday: 18/08/1984 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Thanks Kaz, I will ring the vet tomorrow and ask him. Link to comment
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