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melbournebudgies

An Important Petition

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According to Kaz's research Neat these are already in Austraia ;)

 

Derek if a environmental impact assessment had been conducted a couple of hundred years ago on the impact of hard hooved animals on the Australian environment we might have thought differently about it. We are more educated now. I am currently working on a huge project for the vic governement which will allow us tyo analyse the effect of land use history(including different types of grazing) and it's affect on the current vegetation quality.

 

I think there is a big difference between an animal that can survive in the wild and one that can't. A show budgie would not survive in the wild,a large cat would.

 

That's beacuse the Cats would eat the Show budgies ...

:D

;) Well, What, someone else would have said it hahahaha :P

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I have received a reply from a well respected Savannah Car Breeder. All the current hype has been due to misinformation. The breed of cat that has been mistakenly identified as the Savannah cat as being the problem is in fact an error. The cat that is at issue is the ASHERA cat which is a cross between the Asian Leopard and an African Serval.

I have documentation to prove this as sent to me just now. Also due to the misinformation being spread about ......legal issues are now in play for retractions of outlandish statements.

Only goes to prove people can get all upset over things when they only have half the information and wrong information at that.

Edited by KAZ

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Here's the correct information in ..................

 

1. The wrong information has been taken and supplied to the media. Action is likely to be taken about this act.

 

2. The cat that has been wrongly put forth as the Savannah is in fact the ASHERA cat. Even pictures are of the ASHERA and not the Savannah. The fact that it has been purported to be a Savannah cat is a gross distortion of facts.

 

3. The ASHERA cat does not meet with any of the legislation and cannot be imported into Australia. It does not meet with legislation requirements.

 

4. The ASHERA is not deemed to be a domestic cat breed and is not recognised by TICA (The International Cat Association). TICA is the world governing authority on

pedigree feline breeds (http://www.tica.org).

 

5. The savannah cat has met all requirements for legal importation.

 

6. Only 5th generation bred Savannahs have been authorised for importation and these are a markedly smaller cat than the original 1st through to 4 generation Savannahs. The Savannah is NOT the largest cat to be imported into Australia but in fact the Main coone is. And the 5th generation Savannah is of the same size as a Bengal.

 

7. All offspring to be sold will be desexed, and microchipped.

 

8. Wanting a Savannah kitten will not give anyone the right to own one. Due to breeders fervent dedication to responsible cat breeding a prospective new owner must apply and meet stringent requirements before being accepted as an owner of a Savannah kitten.

 

Edited by KAZ

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Kind of hard to make an informed choice when you are getting 100% different information from different sources.

 

I made my choice based off the information that I had at the time, now I will have to rethink things and find out more as to how these animals are breed, but that is just me.

 

having said that thanks for the info Kaz

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Bengals aren't overly large cats so they aren't as big as the bloke says on the snake site then. Sounds like the whole thing is a bit of a mess.

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Derek I agree that it's not that differnent however bringing in a bird is a little different then bringing in a cat. I know that I have to do more reading on this subject however not sure why people are so up for things like this. It's like the Liger tell me why the world needed that? If it came about on it's own then fine but to force breed these animals is what I disagree with.

 

There has been no cases for Lions and Tigers breeding in the wild and producing viable offspring it's done in the lab which scares me. As far as I know the same goes for these cat and if you have any proof that it was a more natural process them I am open to reading about it but from what I have read they are another expamle of humans trying to breed something that should not exist and maybe there is a reason for that...

 

That is just my personal opinion.

 

Seeing as show budgies are the exact same species as wild budgies, there is a giant difference between importing budgies and importing any kind of cat as cats are not native in Australia. Also, the only reason Lions and Tigers don't breed in the wild is because they kill each other instead! Genetically, they are well suited to breeding with each other as they are able to produce fertile, viable offspring.

 

Kaz, that is great. It just goes to show how misinformation can cause so much conflict/problems; there is so much misinformation out there, as someone who is very into science (and "the facts") it makes me angry :huh: .

 

Also, weren't Bengals descendant from a wild cat bred with a domestic cat?

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I was under the impression that ony some 'Liger' were fertile and that most were actually infertile. by definition a species is a group of animals that can produce viable offspring.

 

All cats were originally descended from wild cats, the issue at hand is the size of the animal. It sounds like these guys aren't as big as they are claimed by their opponents.

Edited by melbournebudgies

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I was under the impression that ony some 'Liger' were fertile and that most were actually infertile. by definition a species is a group of animals that can produce viable offspring

 

A species is a group of animals which can produce fertile, viable offspring. And Lions and Tigers are very closely related but are not considered the same species because in the wild they don't produce fertile, viable offspring because their instincts say "kill" instead! But I think they found that a lonely lion and a lonely tiger (ie. enclosured side by side in a zoo environment) can overcome their instinct to kill because their instinct to breed becomes stronger than their instinct to kill.

 

According to wikipedia, ligers have been (or documented) since at least the early 19th century. I'm not sure how long AI has been around though...

And apparently only female ligers and tigons are fertile (but I think they have to breed with a lion or a tiger).

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Well I include fertile in my definition of viable but yes... Interesting that they found the same thing with the Savannahs, early generations of male offspring are infertile. I think that you would find that regardless of instancts they would still not be considered the same species. Producing only female fertile offspring would not result in a sustainable population.

 

Caheao what are you studying at uni?

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I was under the impression that ony some 'Liger' were fertile and that most were actually infertile. by definition a species is a group of animals that can produce viable offspring.

 

All cats were originally descended from wild cats, the issue at hand is the size of the animal. It sounds like these guys aren't as big as they are claimed by their opponents.

 

Sorry, I meant a different species of wild cat...yeah, found it on wikipedia. The bengal is descendant from a domestic cat and Asian Leopard Cat, and should be at least 3 generations from the original crossing. And bengals are an accepted domestic cat now!

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Well I include fertile in my definition of viable but yes... Interesting that they found the same thing with the Savannahs, early generations of male offspring are infertile. I think that you would find that regardless of instancts they would still not be considered the same species. Producing only female fertile offspring would not result in a sustainable population.Caheao what are you studying at uni?
No, I wouldn't include them as the same species. Wild tigers and lions would not reproduce at all in the wild. :hap: I'm studying Science at uni (I'm in first year) - will probably major in Microbiology and/or Genetics. Not much of a zoology person though :huh: think I would prefer to do chemistry! :P Genetics-wise I find breeding two different species fasinating and I don't usually consider the ethics of it. :D
It sounds right but I don't trust Wikipedia personally
Yeah, you have to take it with a grain of salt (or a whole packet)...I only use it to get the general gist of things or to confirm what I already know - would never use it as a proper scientific reference though!

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Which uni? I just finished my science degree in Botany and Zoology at La Trobe

 

Yay! I'm at Latrobe - I'm actually doing Animal and Vet Biosciences but I'm (hopefully) transferring to Science for next semester.

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Hey you're doing the captive animals version of my degree :hap: I'm a Conservation Biology chick :P

 

Yeah :huh:

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Doing my last exam ever next week! Yippeeee! I get to graduate in October, had heaps of fun (especially on the field trips) but I'm glad it's over...

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Doing my last exam ever next week! Yippeeee! I get to graduate in October, had heaps of fun (especially on the field trips) but I'm glad it's over...

 

Lucky you! :D My last exam for this semester is tomorrow...should be studying right now actually. ;)

 

Field trips is one of the reasons I don't want to do Zoology...I'd much prefer to be in a lab playing with DNA and bacteria!

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Actually didn't do many in Zoo, most of my field trips were for botany. I did go to Heron Island up in the Whitsundays last year for zoology though, now you can't tekll me that wouldn't take your fancy :D Snorkling on the reef... lying on the beach... pretty tough ;)

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Actually didn't do many in Zoo, most of my field trips were for botany. I did go to Heron Island up in the Whitsundays last year for zoology though, now you can't tekll me that wouldn't take your fancy :D Snorkling on the reef... lying on the beach... pretty tough ;)

 

No way! I'm really not a beach person. :D

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I love cats and own two but I also love our natural animals.So this is why my cats are indoor cats.These cats look absolutely beautiful and I can see the concern over the wildlife.Maybe more energy needs to go into educating people about pet ownership and responsibility.

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I love cats and own two but I also love our natural animals.So this is why my cats are indoor cats.These cats look absolutely beautiful and I can see the concern over the wildlife.Maybe more energy needs to go into educating people about pet ownership and responsibility.

 

Thank you. One of the most sensible comments on this thread.

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I love cats and own two but I also love our natural animals.So this is why my cats are indoor cats.These cats look absolutely beautiful and I can see the concern over the wildlife.Maybe more energy needs to go into educating people about pet ownership and responsibility.

 

I love cats too, and my cat is strictly indoors as well (I get annoyed when my dad says "cats should be let outside"). Actually, my dad went to a biology conference the other week and he meet someone there who thinks people should be allowed to keep native animals as pets: why should we be keeping non-native animals are pets? We have stacks of native animals in Australia that may make good pets. Like budgies! ;) I'm so proud of them...

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I love cats and own two but I also love our natural animals.So this is why my cats are indoor cats.These cats look absolutely beautiful and I can see the concern over the wildlife.Maybe more energy needs to go into educating people about pet ownership and responsibility.

 

I love cats too, and my cat is strictly indoors as well (I get annoyed when my dad says "cats should be let outside"). Actually, my dad went to a biology conference the other week and he meet someone there who thinks people should be allowed to keep native animals as pets: why should we be keeping non-native animals are pets? We have stacks of native animals in Australia that may make good pets. Like budgies! ;) I'm so proud of them...

 

I don't consider the budgies that we keep these days as being native. Sure they originated from them but through years and years of inbreeding they are no longer anything like the native budgerigar.

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I love cats and own two but I also love our natural animals.So this is why my cats are indoor cats.These cats look absolutely beautiful and I can see the concern over the wildlife.Maybe more energy needs to go into educating people about pet ownership and responsibility.

 

I love cats too, and my cat is strictly indoors as well (I get annoyed when my dad says "cats should be let outside"). Actually, my dad went to a biology conference the other week and he meet someone there who thinks people should be allowed to keep native animals as pets: why should we be keeping non-native animals are pets? We have stacks of native animals in Australia that may make good pets. Like budgies! ;) I'm so proud of them...

 

I don't consider the budgies that we keep these days as being native. Sure they originated from them but through years and years of inbreeding they are no longer anything like the native budgerigar.

 

Thats why I don't like show budgies. Why would you want to make them bigger? Budgies are good because they are small. I especially don't like show budgie's heads, they have a nice profile but when you look at them front on, you can't see their eyes! I have two 'aussie' type budgies by-the-way.

Any pet is different from the 'wild-type', not just budgies, as soon as you domesticate them they change - even if they still seem similar.

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