Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Daz

Understanding The Violet Gene

25 posts in this topic

Cobalts Violet is the only visual violet, but the violet gene effect so many other colours in different ways.

 

To understand the violet gene, we must first understand the consept of Sky blue , Cobalt and Mauve. These colours are effected by the dark factor (sounds like star wars :P).

 

Each bird carried to lighting factors, these come as a Light Factor (L) and a Dark Factor (D).

If a bird has two light factors LL in the blue series it is Sky Blue. In the green series it is Light Green.

If a bird hsa a light factor and a dark factor LD it is a Cobalt in the blue series and a Dark Green in the green series.

If a bird carries two dark factors DD it is a Mauve in the blue series and an Olive in the green series.

 

Lets look at the Violet Gene (v) it is a floating gene that reacts to the Lighting factors. It can be carried on the Light factor or Dark factor.

 

Some examples. a Blue series bird that is carring 1 light factor and one dark factor and the violet gene could be writen this way Lv D or L Dv because the violet gene can be carried on the Light fator or dark factor. This bird in the blue series would be a visual violet (Cobalt Violet). It it was a green series bird it would be a Violet Dark Green. This bird would look like an Olive.

 

Let keep to the blue series birds only.

 

L Lv or Lv L would be a Violet Skyblue

L Dv or Lv D would be a Visual Violet (Violet Cobalt)

D DV or Dv D would be a Violet Mauve.

 

To many this would be as far as they would care to go. Breeding Show birds is a bit different . The breeder would like to know what factor the Violet gene is attached to to help him breed the bird he wants.

How dod you find this out. Well if you have a few thousand of dollars hanging around you can have extensive DNA testing done. Or you can test breed.

 

Example 1.

 

Cross a Cobalt LD with a Visual Violet Lv D.

(Lets use one way of crossing in genetics.1sts, lasts, 1st to last, last to 1st. )

 

L Lv - Violet Sky

D D - Mauve

L D - Cobalt

Lv D - Visual Violet.

 

Note no Skyblues

 

Example 2.

 

Cross a Cobalt LD with a Visual Violet L Dv.

 

L L - Skyblue

D Dv - Violet Mauve

L D - Cobalt

L Dv - Visual Violet

 

Note no Mauves.

 

 

As you can see there is different outcomes from pairing what would look like the same birds.

 

You can carry this on for all types of pairing.

 

Example 3

 

Cross a Violet Mauve D Dv with a Skyblue L L

 

D L - Cobalt

Dv L - Visual Violet

D L - Cobalt

Dv L - Visual Violet

 

50% Visual Violet

50 % Cobalt.

 

Remeber that there is the double factor visual violet Lv Dv.

 

 

For those that get it, what is the out come of a Light green bird to a visual violet?

 

More Information

Producing Visual Violets by Cyril Rogers

 

Violet Factor Blue Series

Edited by daz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice Daz :P I'm leaving the question open to others, but from this working out it means Marine is carrying the violet gene on the Dark factor becuase I've gotten skyblues from the pair. (cupid and Reep)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Nerwen. That would be right.

We went through this discussion at the last meeting and there is another 4 examples including

 

a double factor visual violet with a cobalt.

 

A visual violet with a lutino.

 

and a violet grey.

 

 

But i'd like people to grasp the concept first.

 

The breeder that discussed this topic has breed most combinations in the blue series but hasn't breed visual violet to visual violt.

Edited by daz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For those that get it, what is the out come of a Light green bird to a visual violet?

 

GG dd x bb D(v)d

50% Gb dd (light green split blue) and 50% Gb D(v)d (violet dark green split blue)

 

OR

 

GG dd X bb Dd(v)

50% Gb Dd (Dark green split blue) and 50% Gb dd(v) (light green violet split blue)

Edited by HurdyBirdy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a while I thought you only got half. Glad you added the rest :(

 

 

Edit:

1. LL x Lv D

 

Violet lt green/blue 50%

Dark Green/blue 50%

 

2. LL x L Dv

 

Lt green/blue 50%

Visual dk green/blue 50%

 

 

 

okay what about visual violet to visual violet.

Edited by daz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm, I noticed you didn't take into account crossing over, and as pertaining to your first example I believe cross overs would yield some sky blues?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is true. As green is Dominant to Blue but there is a percentage that will be blue series effected by the Dark factor and violet gene. But I only want to keep it on the basic principles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay what about visual violet to visual violet.

 

Visual Violet is Lv D (Violet Cobalt)

 

1. Lv D x Lv D

 

DF Violet Skyblue 25%

Visual Violet 50%

Mauve 25%

 

2. L Dv x Lv D

 

Violet Skyblue 25%

Cobalt 25%

DF Visual Violet 25%

Violet Mauve 25%

 

3. L Dv x L Dv

 

Skyblue 25%

Visual Violet 50%

DF Violet Mauve 25%

 

So as you can see from the two Visual Violets there are many possibilities as to where the violet gene is attached.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With talk of Violets, this is a good topic to read and try to understand. :wub:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Vimsen from Norway here:))

I have a few questions about violets. How can you actually SEE whether it's a violet factor in the budgie or not,- especially in the blue-series? I have read somewhere that a violet skyblue will have a turqoise in their wing and tail feathers and so will the violet cobalt also. A normal cobalt will have navy blue wing and tailfeathers. Is this right and a sign to separate the normals from the ones with the violet factor? If not, are there any other signs to discover that there's in fact a violet factor in the budgie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi, Vimsen from Norway here:))

I have a few questions about violets. How can you actually SEE whether it's a violet factor in the budgie or not,- especially in the blue-series? I have read somewhere that a violet skyblue will have a turqoise in their wing and tail feathers and so will the violet cobalt also. A normal cobalt will have navy blue wing and tailfeathers. Is this right and a sign to separate the normals from the ones with the violet factor? If not, are there any other signs to discover that there's in fact a violet factor in the budgie?

 

I am hoping that by posting some pictures for you I can show the difference between violets and sky violets and cobalts. Sometimes blues dont show well on our monitors, so I hope they show a difference here. Very often a budgie seen to be cobalt, may actually be a sky violet but to an untrained eye the average person not experienced in sky violets sees only a cobalt budgie. The difference is is a violet hue around the neck and shoulder area and also the intensity of body colour surpasses the average cobalt. If you can imagine a skyblue budgie with a wash of violet colour over top of the skyblue, then you can almost acchieve in your minds eye the colour you would see if looking at a sky violet. In a sky violet budgie you will see a blend or a coming together of two colours...there is depth to the feather colour and an intensity not evident on a cobalt.

Here is a violet budgie (quite purple looking )

AAturnleysbirds006-1.jpg

Here is a sky violet budgie ( shows a purple flash up around the neck/shoulder area)

AAturnleysbirds013-1.jpg

and another sky violet ( with YF and dom pied ) ( purple flash near shoulder area )

AAturnleysbirds025.jpg

This YF opaline sky violet hen also show a small area of violet around the neck/shoulder area

AAturnleysbirds029.jpg

and here is two cobalt budgies

budgiesjan070.jpg

Edited by KAZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone interested in breeding violets visit the following web sites:

 

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/c.../violets01.html

http://www.budgerigarrare.com/violet.htm

http://www.budgerigarassociation.com/baa_012.htm

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.w.evans/bre...ings.htm#Violet

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.w.evans/bre...ewings.htm#Dark

 

There are lots of different ideas about how the violet factor gene works, and even when you think you know how it works, nature throws you a curly one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay, so we know that a YF type 2 sky blue looks green, like Ozzy in this picture.

 

angelandoz2.jpg

 

Does that mean that if I have a YF2 bird that i know has the violet markings around his neck, but instead of looking like a normal green he looks like a seafoam green, is this due to the violet gene?

 

zeus_fronton.jpg

P1010004.jpg

Edited by Dave_McMinn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the yellow and blue together make the seafoam green the blue tinge around the neck would indicate the violet gene

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a photo of one of my violet greens for you guys... it's funny because in person it looks like an "odd" olive (the father was a light green and the mother was a violet cobalt)... so olive isn't a possibility as the father has no dark factors. I've discovered a confirmation to something I heard once in how to tell if you have a violet green as it shows up in photographs with a flash differently than to the eye when they are carrying violet, in the photo you can see the "blue/violet" comming through the green... here is the photo of my violet green..

 

here he is without the flash.. how he looks to the natural eye:

 

IMG_5113.jpg

IMG_5106.jpg

IMG_4912-1.jpg

 

here is a photo with the flash, and you can see how the violet is in the green (chick in the middle):

 

 

IMG_5582.jpg

Edited by Ravengypsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, Violet grey spangle is from S.A and the green spangle is a Auction bird.

This is my first year back breeding after a ten+ years break.

 

Ohh! I already have a answer to my genetics question from the guys on the U.K Budgerigar forum.

Makes it easy when you have birdrec or one of those genetics programs, saves me hunting through my book collection for the answer.

So just waiting for the first eggs to hatch!

I always and only put normals to spangles, but this pairing is a experiment as I never had a chance to breed D/F spangles before. I have heard on a number of occasions breeders complaining about how the spangle is no longer the budgie it used to be!

I would like to see the original brilliant spangle returned the picture below is my first attempt!

But I'm fighting over a decade of miss matched breeding and a bastardisation of the variety!!

And those Melanistic spangles!!

What a mistake they are to the breed!!

But that's another subject!

 

spanglewing.jpg?t=1213401142

Edited by throwback

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TB what has changed since the spangle was first developed? I'm a sucker for spangles and now that I have by big show type df spangle Ozzie I'm looking forward to putting him with my big hen and seeing what I get :) My current spangle babies are all pet types.Changed my mind, gonna put it in another subject as Tb said :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Breeders have bred them wrong and have lost the wing markings..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cobalts Violet is the only visual violet, but the violet gene effect so many other colours in different ways.

 

To understand the violet gene, we must first understand the consept of Sky blue , Cobalt and Mauve. These colours are effected by the dark factor (sounds like star wars wink.gif).

 

Each bird carried to lighting factors, these come as a Light Factor (L) and a Dark Factor (D).

If a bird has two light factors LL in the blue series it is Sky Blue. In the green series it is Light Green.

If a bird hsa a light factor and a dark factor LD it is a Cobalt in the blue series and a Dark Green in the green series.

If a bird carries two dark factors DD it is a Mauve in the blue series and an Olive in the green series.

 

Lets look at the Violet Gene (v) it is a floating gene that reacts to the Lighting factors. It can be carried on the Light factor or Dark factor.

 

Some examples. a Blue series bird that is carring 1 light factor and one dark factor and the violet gene could be writen this way Lv D or L Dv because the violet gene can be carried on the Light fator or dark factor. This bird in the blue series would be a visual violet (Cobalt Violet). It it was a green series bird it would be a Violet Dark Green. This bird would look like an Olive.

 

Let keep to the blue series birds only.

 

L Lv or Lv L would be a Violet Skyblue

L Dv or Lv D would be a Visual Violet (Violet Cobalt)

D DV or Dv D would be a Violet Mauve.

 

To many this would be as far as they would care to go. Breeding Show birds is a bit different . The breeder would like to know what factor the Violet gene is attached to to help him breed the bird he wants.

How dod you find this out. Well if you have a few thousand of dollars hanging around you can have extensive DNA testing done. Or you can test breed.

 

Example 1.

 

Cross a Cobalt LD with a Visual Violet Lv D.

(Lets use one way of crossing in genetics.1sts, lasts, 1st to last, last to 1st. )

 

L Lv - Violet Sky

D D - Mauve

L D - Cobalt

Lv D - Visual Violet.

 

Note no Skyblues

 

Example 2.

 

Cross a Cobalt LD with a Visual Violet L Dv.

 

L L - Skyblue

D Dv - Violet Mauve

L D - Cobalt

L Dv - Visual Violet

 

Note no Mauves.

 

 

As you can see there is different outcomes from pairing what would look like the same birds.

 

You can carry this on for all types of pairing.

 

Example 3

 

Cross a Violet Mauve D Dv with a Skyblue L L

 

D L - Cobalt

Dv L - Visual Violet

D L - Cobalt

Dv L - Visual Violet

 

50% Visual Violet

50 % Cobalt.

 

Remeber that there is the double factor visual violet Lv Dv.

 

 

For those that get it, what is the out come of a Light green bird to a visual violet?

 

More Information

Producing Visual Violets by Cyril Rogers

 

Violet Factor Blue Series

 

Nice work Daz.

Just wondering can someone advise me if just by appearance of a visual violet specifically that of a visual violet cobalt, can you tell wether it is a single factor violet or a double factor violet carryer? I see so often on other budgie forums people identifying an image of a violet bird as double factor violet cobalt, I was of the beleif that the definition of its violet factor couldn't be determined unless test breeding was done, any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not great with Genetics but I know some people say that a DF budgerigar will be slightly "More violet" than SF budgies. I have no idea if that's just a wives tale though or if its a fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well may be a fact Jimmy, this is what Ken Yorke says from his web site -

 

"Generally, the only difference between DF Violet Cobalts and SF Violet Cobalts is that they are a deeper richer violet colour. Similarly DF Violet Mauves are also a deeper richer colour than SF Violet Mauves. "

 

http://users.tpg.com...rke/violets.htm

Edited by trefto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There you go. He's a well respected commentator on Genetics so if he's saying it, I'd be listening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did my sapphire have any violet in him? The baby spangle is one of his offspring I see some pretty lavender in the baby the gray English budgie is the mom

IMG_0211.JPG

IMG_0235.JPG

IMG_0236.JPG

IMG_0237.JPG

IMG_0238.JPG

IMG_0362.JPG

IMG_0368.JPG

IMG_0378.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the whole clutch from sapphire and smokie 

 

 

IMG_0383.JPG

IMG_0384.JPG

IMG_0385.JPG

IMG_0386.JPG

IMG_0387.JPG

IMG_0388.JPG

Edited by Budgieholic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0